Embedded Controller does not read temperatures continuously, leading to no fan control

[depate]

Hello!

Since some time I noticed that my Framework Laptop 13 AMD 7840U gets really hot. Uncomfortably hot. Also, I noticed that there's no fan spin at all, if that happens. But, also, I notice fan spins from time to time, often also full speed.

The laptop runs Archlinux, the latest BIOS firmware, although I noticed this also with previous versions.

I used ectool and framework_tool to investigate and found, that neither tool updates its reported temperatures under load (compiling or s-tui stress mode) and thus the EC does not see the necessity to spin up the fans according to the limits. And, expectedly, this leads to CPU throttling and a burning hot chassis.

I observed that after a fresh boot, the report of CPU temperatures can occasionally be Zero (0 °C) for all reported temperatures. Also after a suspend/wake cycle this might fix itself. Sometimes after a shortish period of time (< 2 min) the EC reads temperatures, however, recorded temperatures remain static, irrespective of CPU load. Sometimes it simply does not. Once I repeat a sleep/wake cycle, the temperature often updates and spins up the fan if needed, which I almost always the case, and the fans will go full blast to cool down the APU.

Since, the dropping temperature after ending the load will also not be noticed by the EC, the fan will stay on full-blast indefinitely, or until I suspend the laptop again.

This behavior has been observed for battery or AC mode.

Could you please tell me where to look further for logs or details, why the EC is stuck in its temperature measurements?

My understanding would be, that there is a continuous measurement. E.g. like all the other sensors that sensors reports.

Attachments:

EC version:

workframe in ~
✗ sudo framework_tool --versions
Mainboard Hardware
  Type:           Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040Series)
  Revision:       MassProduction
UEFI BIOS
  Version:        03.09
  Release Date:   04/22/2025
EC Firmware
  Build version:  azalea_v3.4.113385-ec:c25dec,os:7b88e1,cmsis:4aa3ff 2025-04-14 01:55:38 marigold1@ip-172-26-3-226
  Current image:  RO
PD Controllers
  Right (01):       0.0.1C (MainFw)
  Left  (23):       0.0.1C (MainFw)
Touchpad
  Firmware Version: v0704
HDMI Expansion Card
  Active Firmware:  106 (3.0.10.06A, MainFw)

workframe in ~ took 0s
❯ sudo ectool version
RO version:    azalea_v3.4.113385-ec:c25dec,os
RW version:    azalea_v3.4.113385-ec:c25dec,os
Firmware copy: RO
Build info:    azalea_v3.4.113385-ec:c25dec,os:7b88e1,cmsis:4aa3ff 2025-04-14 01:55:38 marigold1@ip-172-26-3-226
Tool version:  0.0.1-isolate Apr 30 2025 none

No reporting of Temperatures after Boot/Sleep/Wake Cycle:

Every 1.0s: sudo framework_tool -vvvvv --thermal                                                                                                                                      workframe: 02:21:31 AM
                                                                                                                                                                                               in 0.019s (0)
[DEBUG] Chromium EC Driver: CrosEc
[TRACE] get_smbios() linux entry
[DEBUG] read_memory(offset=0x0, size=0xF)
[DEBUG] read_memory(offset=0x10, size=0x8)
  F75303_Local: 0 C
  F75303_CPU:   0 C
  F75303_DDR:   0 C
  APU:          Error
  Fan Speed:     0 RPM
[INFO ]   Fan Speed:    Not present
[INFO ]   Fan Speed:    Not present
[INFO ]   Fan Speed:    Not present

On AC/battery readout after successful suspend/wake cycle. Initial state prior to the next two pictures.

workframe in ~
❯ sudo framework_tool -vvvvv --thermal
[DEBUG] Chromium EC Driver: CrosEc
[TRACE] get_smbios() linux entry
[DEBUG] read_memory(offset=0x0, size=0xF)
[DEBUG] read_memory(offset=0x10, size=0x8)
  F75303_Local: 42 C
  F75303_CPU:   43 C
  F75303_DDR:   42 C
  APU:          Error
  Fan Speed:  2340 RPM
[INFO ]   Fan Speed:    Not present
[INFO ]   Fan Speed:    Not present
[INFO ]   Fan Speed:    Not present

System in s-tui stress mode after the intial setup:

System still in stress mode, after suspend/wake cycle. Temperatures got updated, fans immediately ramp up to cool the CPU. Also notice the 500 MHz increase in clock speed once the fans provide more cooling.

[myndzi]

Was looking for info, encountered the same thing just recently.

Mainboard Hardware
  Type:           Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen AI 300 Series)
  Revision:       MassProduction
UEFI BIOS
  Version:        03.03
  Release Date:   03/10/2025
EC Firmware
  Build version:  lilac-3.0.3-413f018 2025-03-06 05:45:28 marigold2@ip-172-26-3-226
  Current image:  RO
PD Controllers
  Right (01):       0.0.0B (MainFw)
  Left  (23):       0.0.0B (MainFw)
Laptop Webcam Module (2nd Gen)
  Firmware Version: 1.1.1
Touchpad
  Firmware Version: v0704
HDMI Expansion Card
  Active Firmware:  106 (3.0.10.06A, MainFw)

I noticed the laptop was very hot, had just finished charging. I had expected the fans to run but they did not, so I checked the temps and notice they looked low. When I manually turned the fans on, they did not change either. After a restart of the laptop, I noticed them begin changing over time as expected.

[myndzi]

(is there some command I can run to restart whatever is doing this manually, so that I can at least recover without restarting the laptop entirely?)

[Kaukov]

I've been facing this issue on Linux as well. The laptop will get super hot and stay at high 90°C temperatures, then after some time it will drop to 65-67°C and the fans are reported to be spinning at 4000-4200 RPM and the chassis is hot. When engaging all cores - stress test, compiling code, etc, the CPU will be throttled hard and not reach more than 1.4-1.7GHz.

Restarting the laptop fixes the issue temporarily until it occurs again.

Mainboard Hardware
  Type:           Laptop 13 (AMD Ryzen 7040Series)
  Revision:       MassProduction
UEFI BIOS
  Version:        03.09
  Release Date:   04/22/2025
EC Firmware
  Build version:  azalea_v3.4.113385-ec:c25dec,os:7b88e1,cmsis:4aa3ff 2025-04-14 01:55:38 marigold1@ip-172-26-3-226
  Current image:  RO
PD Controllers
  Right (01):       0.0.1C (MainFw)
  Left  (23):       0.0.1C (MainFw)
Touchpad
  Firmware Version: v0704

Running Gentoo Linux with kernel 6.15.6 currently, but has been happening on previous kernel versions as well.

I'm afraid to revert my BIOS version in case something breaks because this is my work machine as well.

Edit:

Running framework_tool --fansetrpm 7000 will actually set the fans to their max speed and start to cool off the CPU. However, even though the thermal reports are showing low temperatures, the CPU is still throttled when engaging all cores:

F75303_Local: 55 C
  F75303_CPU:   47 C
  F75303_DDR:   51 C
  APU:          60 C
  Fan Speed:  6826 RPM

Edit 2:

After a direct reboot, running a stress test starts at 3.9GHz and immediately gets throttled even though temperatures are showing low-to-mid 60°C. And stressing the CPU doesn't increase the temperature even if the fans are running at the highest RPM. I really have no idea what's going on at this point, I'll wait for it to cool down even more.

[AkechiShiro]

What is your current BIOS @Kaukov ? 3.05 ? Or 3.09 ?

[Kaukov]

What is your current BIOS @Kaukov ? 3.05 ? Or 3.09 ?

UEFI BIOS
  Version:        03.09
  Release Date:   04/22/2025

[Kaukov]

I just did a quick experiment.

After the issue appeared again and the sensors under Linux were stuck at 60-something °C and the fans refused to spin up, I shut down the laptop and put in a Windows 11 SSD I have lying around.

When Windows 11 booted up, the fans spun up to their maximum and HWMonitor showed 92°C. When I ran a stress test, the CPU frequency was high and the fans were working fine. I didn't experience any throttling.

After that I quickly switched back to the Linux SSD and CPU frequency and temperature are iffy. The frequency, when stressing the CPU, sometimes drops to 1.6-1.8GHz for parts of a second, then goes back up to what it was previously. It's been 5 minutes and the issue still hasn't occurred, but I expect it to in the next hour or so.

So my conclusion is that it might be Linux-related, possibly something from the 6.15 kernel.

[myndzi]

I don't know that that test is revealing. Actually, I thought I had posted this workaround here but I see now that I did not. All you have to do to "reset" it is sleep the laptop and bring it back up. Whatever state gets broken is resolved via cycling in that way. Certainly by a power cycle. So, since it seems to be intermittent (I don't yet know something specific that triggers it), just booting to Windows isn't enough to say "it doesn't happen on Windows"; and, powering cycling when it's impaired clearly recovers from the state so it's not enough to say that it was broken when you booted Windows...

[Kaukov]

I don't know that that test is revealing. Actually, I thought I had posted this workaround here but I see now that I did not. All you have to do to "reset" it is sleep the laptop and bring it back up. Whatever state gets broken is resolved via cycling in that way. Certainly by a power cycle. So, since it seems to be intermittent (I don't yet know something specific that triggers it), just booting to Windows isn't enough to say "it doesn't happen on Windows"; and, powering cycling when it's impaired clearly recovers from the state so it's not enough to say that it was broken when you booted Windows...

Interestingly in my case this workaround doesn't work. After suspending and waking up, the CPU is still throttled and the fans don't spin up.

I posted about Windows, because even restarting Linux doesn't fix it most of the time or even all the time. Windows just made an impression because it instantly picked up the proper temperature and spun up the fans.

[myndzi]

Huh, that's interesting. What I've been doing if it "feels hot" is sudo watch -n 1 'framework_tool --thermal'. If I don't see the temps changing, I press the power button (which enters ... some sleep state. I don't know how to determine the full specifics, though I'm aware that there are lots of nuances here and varying support). I immediately hit a key and it comes back on. The fans don't always spin up if it's not super hot, but the temp readings begin to vary again. I think the fans running or not may be a separate issue; they seem to sometimes blow when they don't seem to need to, and other times they don't when I'd have expected them to. Like, the "sensitivity" to heat seems to vary over time.

Edit: Possibly, temps are "reading" again, but actually presenting the wrong number? That could explain why they seem to be "sensitive" sometimes and other times quite lax, contradictory to how hot the case feels subjectively

I'm not sure how to check if the CPU is being throttled - how do you do that?

[Kaukov]

You might be correct that sleeping works. It didn't at first, so I left the laptop to get a drink. After coming back and trying another stress test, the frequency increased properly and the fans started kicking in after the laptop had been at 99-100°C for about 5 seconds.

I'm using s-tui and btop to stress and monitor the system.

I ran the framework_tool --thermal command, but it displays the following temps:

F75303_Local: 59 C
  F75303_CPU:   59 C
  F75303_DDR:   51 C
  APU:          93 C
  Fan Speed:  6874 RPM

Interestingly, only the APU temp increases, but the F75303_CPU sensor stays cool at 50-55°C

[Kaukov]

I had some time and ran Windows 11 for a longer period of time. It took about 30 minutes for the issue to occur. The only difference with Linux is that the fans are actually spinning at higher speeds even if everything else is limited.

I noticed the CPU dropped its voltage and refused to use move than 600mV. The CPU power also stopped going above 15W. The frequency is still throttled and doesn't increase when stressing the CPU.

I noticed a thread on the official forums - https://community.frame.work/t/amd-7840-fan-and-temp-issue-negative-temp-fan-is-not-starting/72337. I will go back to Linux in a few hours and see if I also get negative temperature readings via acpi.

[Kaukov]

Edit:

Disregard everything... Even though today it lasted many hours without occurring, it just now occurred again and the CPU is throttling and the temperature is reading in the 60s again. acpi -t shows "normal" readings:

Thermal 0: ok, 53.8 degrees C
Thermal 1: ok, 61.8 degrees C
Thermal 2: ok, 61.8 degrees C
Thermal 3: ok, 59.8 degrees C

At this point I'm lost.

Update from today:

When switching back to the Linux SSD, I decided to see if there was dust somewhere. Started blowing on the motherboard and the cooler with compressed air - nothing came out. But I noticed a speck of dust lint on one of the corners of the cooler intake. It was literally a millimeter in size. Removed it carefully with the Framework Screwdriver.

After that I ran a long 6-hour compile session of packages, then I compiled the Linux kernel, then I gamed - the system hasn't been more stable. It was keeping a very solid and high CPU frequency, the fans worked perfectly fine. Zero drops in performance and no occurrences of the issue.

My conclusion now is that this little millimeter-long-and-wide speck was causing all the issues OR blowing with compressed air cleared something but it wasn't noticeable to the naked eye.

Overall I'm no longer facing issues even if the ambient temperature in the room is quite hot today due to the summer heat.

Can you also check and see if you have any tiny specks somewhere on your cooler?

[myndzi]

For what it's worth, it seems like the fan problem is just a symptom. It is directly explained by incorrect temperature readings:

My laptop was feeling a little warm (though not burning), so I used acpi -t to log the temps before and after a sleep:

Before:

Thermal 0: ok, 47.8 degrees C
Thermal 1: ok, 50.8 degrees C
Thermal 2: ok, 43.8 degrees C
Thermal 3: ok, 38.8 degrees C

immediately after a sleep/wake:

Thermal 0: ok, 48.8 degrees C
Thermal 1: ok, 68.8 degrees C
Thermal 2: ok, 43.8 degrees C
Thermal 3: ok, 38.8 degrees C

18 degrees C difference in the reading before ad after sleeping.

Notably, the temperature readings were not stuck/frozen as I had previously thought; I have another reading from "before" where "Thermal 1" reported 51.8 before sleeping.

I believe "Thermal 1" is the CPU temp.

Edit: It's plausible that either the sleep process turning off the fans lets heat accumulate quickly, or that waking from sleep briefly spikes the CPU, so this isn't entirely definitive. However, the amount it jumped by is suspicious.

As a counterexample, I just did a sleep-wake again now that the fan has cooled things down and it did not jump up to 68C