Recommended virtual environment methods, tools #1874
Replies: 6 comments 11 replies
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Sounds like a good idea to update docs. I mostly use mamba-forge. No fuss no mess. I also use the built in |
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Ah! Another option! 🙂 Would you recommend mamba-forge or venv for someone just getting started with python, pvlib, and virtual environments? |
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Just to add some more to my confusion, this link you provided
starts with
which now takes me to the top of the miniforge page, as the subsection is hidden under a message that mambaforge is discouraged as of this month (sept 2023): 
Full text is:
It seems like the latest miniforge should be fine, as it gives a user the ability to use |
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Mambaforge, zero doubt. What I love:
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I am not as aware of these issues as I should be, so thanks for the discussion. I did find the following in the license agreement:
Looks like I should be ok. Last new install I did was mini-conda with the mamba solver, which worked ok. I was thinking that we could create/publish a yaml file that covers 99% of anticipated pvlib user needs as an alternative to the full anaconda. |
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The way I read Anaconda’s definitions, I’m not sure if, e.g., national labs can use the free version, since they are not small businesses and “education use” sounds like it is only for instructional settings. Many pvlib users probably do fall in the small business category (<200 employees).
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Here’s the problem with I think there may be some confusion between the licensing terms from https://anaconda.com for use of the “default” channel versus the use of conda the virtual environment and package manager which is free an open source, see: https://docs.conda.io/en/latest/license.html Therefore what I believe your main concern is about getting packages without violating Anaconda’s terms of use, not the use of conda itself. Therefore this discussion might really be more about which package index or conda channel to use.
When using |
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Thanks, @mikofski, that is very helpful. I think my concerns were 1) how to get conda without Anaconda, and 2) how to use conda to get packages without violating Anaconda’s terms. It seems like you’ve answered that with 1) mamba and 2) conda-forge. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard of mamba before this discussion, and only sort-of understood conda-forge. So another vote from me (I think I’ve voted twice now, don’t tell…) for updated documentation. Copy-pasting your comment might go a long way 😀. On the topic of needing admin rights to install the python.org version of Python, we already have it in an “IT approved” software list, so can install it on company workstations with no problems. Adding something new and less common (like a mamba installer) could be a challenge. I don’t know if other organizations could have the same challenge, though. maybe there are two “recommended” options: if you can get python.org python, and only that, here’s how to use venv…. Or, if you can get mamba, here’s how to use it with conda-forge and avoid Anaconda TOS challenges… (and maybe a third, if you can use Anaconda, like @adriesse, …). |
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FWIW although the anaconda/conda-forge indexes used to be the only reasonable option for getting a lot of fundamental data/numerics packages (esp on windows), it's a lot easier than it used to be to get everything from PyPI nowadays. That said I still like conda/mamba for creating new environments, but I almost exclusively use pip to install packages into them. But it seems like pvlib is one of many projects with an imperfect "getting started with python" page, and it's a shame for all of us to reinvent that wheel and/or reference each other. I wish some collaborative like scientific-python.org would make something like that which all of us could reference. |
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Good to know that PyPI with |
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When using OS with package manager namely OSX and Linux. You can easily install almost everything with PyPI these days. It's also the safest option I'd say. |
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Dusting off this old discussion, FWIW, I now use There used to be one binary dependency, Edit to add: and of course there’s |
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If you can use it at work |
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Why? |
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In my experience, uv is wicked fast (esp. for complicated dependency trees,
thanks Rust!) and provides a lock file that includes all transitive
dependencies, which enables completely reproducible builds. (The lock file
may not be committed for pvlib-python since it’s a library, but it can be a
CI artifact that serves as a complete record of the build that was tested.)
Also, my understanding is that uv can replace both pyenv, venv, and pip,
while also working with likewise wicked fast companion dev tools such as
the ruff linter (also written in Rust).
Mark Campanelli
LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/markcampanelli/>
Intelligent Measurement Systems LLC
<https://intelligentmeasurementsystems.com>
Try PVfit <https://pvfit.app> today!
…On Sat, Nov 22, 2025 at 14:28 Anton Driesse ***@***.***> wrote:
uv has been really stellar for us and we have switched all of our
infrastructure to it.
Why?
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What if I don't need speed, bells and whistles? Am I still mostly ok using mamba stuff? I wanna spend my time on solar! |
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Definitely! Whatever is working for you is great, no need to switch and learn a new thing for no reason. If in the future you feel frustrations with your current workflow, then uv is a nice alternative to try. |
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Are there any plans in the works to update documentation related to virtual environments? Existing documentation favors Anaconda/conda [1] or references Astropy [1, 2], and Astropy recommends conda, virtualenvwrapper, or pipenv.
Conda:
Maybe it's just me, but Anaconda's terms are confusing for commercial users. It seems like Anaconda requires a paid license for commercial use [3], and conda is BSD-3, but I'm not sure how to install conda without Anaconda. Also, see confusing answers on the internet, like here https://stackoverflow.com/questions/74762863/are-conda-miniconda-and-anaconda-free-to-use-and-open-source. For now, I've decided not to use it at all, and I worry that this might be a hurdle for other potential commercial users.
pipenv: (recommended by Atropy)
I don't know much about it, but I've found a number of online discussions where people say it is (was?) deprecated, stale, or simply no longer "favored".
What about venv?:
It looks like venv is officially recommended by Python/PyPA for Python 3.3, and comes with a standard Python installation [4]. I don't know anything about the auther of this article [5], but they seem to make a compelling argument for venv. I've been using venv for a while now (which definitely doesn't make it an automatic good idea...) and it seems to be working ok. Should venv be referenced somewhere in the pvlib documentation?
[1] https://pvlib-python.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user_guide/installation.html#set-up-a-virtual-environment
[2] https://pvlib-python.readthedocs.io/en/latest/contributing.html#the-basics
[3] https://legal.anaconda.com/policies/en/
[4] https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/guides/installing-using-pip-and-virtual-environments/#installing-virtualenv
[5] https://www.bitecode.dev/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simply-use
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