Replies: 36 comments 26 replies
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Yeah I tried getting in contact, no success yet |
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Cool. Thanks for initiating. We could have a policy discussion separate from any comms happening with thetvdb. I'd guess it unlikely that Medusa itself would be able to (or want to) pay for a license for the project. Who knows, however, whether thetvdb might offer a free apikey at the Medusa project level? Seems unlikely. My conclusion, therefore, is that we need to [a] implement against their "v4" API that is supposedly live now, and [b] put in place user-level apikey capture and pass-thru for those that choose to pay individually. I'm sure this will all go just as smoothly as thetvdb forced-turmoil that began October last yer. ;-) |
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For me it means a. Make sure the alternatives work properly (tvmaze and today) and then b. See what we can do with tvdb changes |
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Its posible a workarround to migrate all the series that actually i have with tvdb to the tvmaze indexer? |
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If need be I can setup a proxy for us to use so they only see my key. |
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Tnx that's very generous. But, the issue with that is, that then we're getting into a cat&mouse game. Where it's possible they'll start blocking keys. Or IP addresses. And I'd like medusa to be an as much as possible stable app. So we need to work something out that's stable. Or we'll look into alternatives |
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I’ve messaged them and sent them my contact info and nothing. They’re expecting $6k+ from another group. I feel like no matter what happens we’re not going to be in their good books. 💁♀️ |
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Then we pull the plug when the time comes |
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I guess one feature that would be nice to implement in the meantime is to be able to change the data provider. Either through a mass update or on a per-episode basis. I didn't see any option for that in the "edit" tab. |
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We just refactored add existing show page. I'll use that to create an indexer change page. It's currently in develop branch if you like a preview |
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Thank! |
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Do folks think keeping thetvdb as an option (with users putting in their own apikey, whether they get that by paying money for it, or by being gifted an apikey because they add data to thetvdb sufficiently and frequently enough[*]) is at all a reasonable option? Or are we dumping them cuz their corporate takeover seeks to make money off data (which they don't even own) enter freely by users (who they don't even compensate). (cough) I think I risk starting a complaint fest here, which is not my intent. If it is not too much additional development work here to track their "v4" API changes (sure to be ongoing, capricious, and arbitrary [and broken frequently]), it seems like it would be nice to keep access to their data as an option. Aside from the data access methods and policy, the data when retrievable is pretty complete and usually of high quality. Along the lines of which provider to use -- how do people feel about tvmaze? Is it as fully populated with good data as is thetvdb? Is it updated frequently enough? Is its API access any more reliable? Is the API itself any more stable? Given the many recent downtime problems with thetvdb and API breakages [bad/incomplete data served] over the past year, perhaps tvmaze is a better option overall if it would actually reliably serve [some] data? I'm willing to switch entirely to tvmaze if it is up to snuff. This is, however, a major undertaking given that show meta data is used by other platforms (various players) as well as here with Medusa. I'd like to keep the retrievers and players in synch. If changed in Medusa the effort to also change in players is painful. [*]The communique I quoted above in PDF claims that thetvdb will have a policy (not yet fully defined apparently) that allows users who submit data to be given a valid apikey. It sounds like this is one way to keep access to their data active without having to pay for it using legal tender, but instead pay for it with a sort of work trade. |
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We haven't decided yet. As a FOSS project the only thing that would make sense is to drop support completely. Their behavior in this situation has been despicable at best. We have added support for TVmaze and TMDB since a long time and so far haven't received any complaints about either of them. Why don't you try them out with a few shows? |
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Yes, I've started using TVmaze so it is good to hear that people haven't had issue with it. Switching everything over is, as mentioned, a significant effort. Along those lines it is very cool to see the migrate logic being developed (mentioned above) which will mitigate the pain of changing everything in Medusa. Migrating in other [unnamed] projects/players poses a different challenge
Agreed. Keeping it FOSS (meaning use of TVmaze) is certainly preferred. |
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Do we feel that the despicable behaviour precludes continuing to provide support for thetvdb? Are there other examples of info providers (be it show meta data or other stuff, I dunno, subtitles) who force access thru non-FOSS mechanisms, which we still support? |
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i had started to add tvmaze at one point (back when tvrage was around) but didnt because their data was so bad (they were pretty new of a site with low user base). i'll have to poke around again. |
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No love for TheTVDB here..... Just need an easy way to port over to tvmaze... |
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Just want to link my old feature request here 😄 |
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Just got an update for Synology Video Station mentioning the removal of the TVDB functionality because of the API change. That brought me here, since although I have SVS installed, I am using Medusa... The only reference to this upcoming TVDB change is this discussion thread that seems unfinished. I have looked for key elements mentioned in this discussion (like changing indexer, adding an api key, etc.) or any reference in the changelog, but found nothing of the sort. So my question is: what did I miss, can we help and if we are travelling into the direction of a termination of tvdb for medusa, should we then not mention it somewhere to avoid a lot of issues 'tvdb is no longer working'? |
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I recently switched my entire library from TVDB to TMDB and it was relatively smooth. Process I did was:
To make sure my Kodi would still pick up everything I did manually create a tvshow.nfo in each show and only added the URL to TVDB and to TMDB. That way Kodi knows where to look with the scraper. Also create a Feature Request to get that added in Medusa to allow for an easier transition: |
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Well as it stands I currently do not even know what shows are linked to tvdb and which are not... And your (@Rouzax) approach probably works, but seems to be a rather hefty job given the number of shows I have on record.... Edit: just checked that 'add existing show' feature (have not used it in the past) and that seems to be rather easy to do. Got some strange errors and it seems that it does not really pick up on already existing downloads automagically though. A tutorial might come in handy |
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I think that as long the list is below 1000. It takes less time then you think. Also it a one time exercise. Just start with a few to get a feel for the process |
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Welll. I just tried it and although at first I thought it was not as difficult as I thought, it turned out it was... Some observations:
Now all of this might seem a complaint rant, but that is not my intention. Given the fact that free access to the TVDB api is ending (when... it seems they even do not know themselves), I fear a lot of users with all kinds of backgrounds will need to migrate one way or the other. So even if there is no one-button-does-all, a tutorial describing what to do, what not to do and the caveats will really help in keeping the number of raised issues down.... (I will try to spend some time to turning some of my observations into proper issue descriptions, preferably with a hint of a cause) |
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Let me chime in my experience based on yours
I agree this is a bit unclear and I also just did one show to see if I picked the right option
Do you mean the customized options that you set in the Add show page? If you setup the scan like this and hit start, you can walk through the options per show and customize each one.
Those were picked up for me when I did a
The Add Existing show page is responsive and each added show will give you status. I think you did a big bang import of all existing shows at once.
Not sure about this one. |
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Let's start with the important one:
Yes. And then I did not set that first toggle ("Prompt me...") but the second ("Use the customised ... for all shows"), since in my understanding this would apply all options set 'above' to all shows added 'below'
Yes, that worked (to some extent) for me as well. The reason for mentioning it here is that this is not straightforward and probably also not what users would expect (since they add "an existing show"). For me the additional problem was that as the customised options were not picked up, all shows were added with the episodes marked 'wanted', which caused a storm of searches and downloads.
Here we disagree slightly. The page is not responsive, at least not with the big bang approach. If you add more than one show, all are marked "Running" but no progress is shown. Perhaps we have our wires crossed about 'responsive' ;-) |
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When a show is added you can hover over the add button. And it will show you the process. If you add existing using the checkboxes it will queue them all. And start adding shows one by one. |
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Are we supporting the new tvdb API with access tokens (per user,
presumably)? Happy to test.
…On 03/11/2021 12:41 AM, p0ps wrote:
When a show is added you can hover over the add button. And it will
show you the process. If you add existing using the checkboxes it will
queue them all. And start adding shows one by one.
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What is the cost for the v4 API Per Year for medusa ? |
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rouzax has a good point. And we will never ever start paying for a service. I'm also not going to implement a service that has it's features locked by a paid model. The core functionality should be available to all users. With the exception of providers and notifications of course. I also have to be honest that I don't know what the changes are for apiv4. And I don't know what the implications are for the apiv3. Like will they stop support for v3? No idea. But tvdb has made clear which direction they are going in. And to me that means that i won't put a lot of effort into the indexer. I am however willing to put some more time into tvmaze and tmdb if that would be meaningful. |
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I'm now an avid user of TMDB because Trakt also moved that way. |
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Hi @p0psicles I get your point now and agree :) Is there going to be an easy way to migrate shows between indexers ? Thanks |
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You can use the methodology I described a bit earlier here. |
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Only downside of tmdb is. They don't have airtime |
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but please support the new API version for those who want to pay individually, yah?
On Monday 28 June 2021 12:33:10 PM (-07:00), p0ps wrote:
We currently have no plans on updating tvdb api to a paid model.
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I don't even know that means? So can't say much about it. |
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I don't think Medusa should pay for a project license, but I would like to be able to use API4 as an individual, paying my own fee.
but if it means Medusa can't reasonably _support_ API4, I get that.
at the moment, though, the tvmaze data (while pretty good) is still not *as* good as thetvdb data.
we'll have to see what thetvdb does to API3 as they move forward
On Tuesday 29 June 2021 11:21:19 AM (-07:00), p0ps wrote:
I don't even know that means? So can't say much about it.
But if it means that features from v3 api are going to be removed and moved to apiv4. Which would mean that the tvdb indexer would become unusable in medusa. Then i'm done with it.
But honestly I can't image any worthwile features that a paid apiv4 would offer, that I would be interested in adding to medusa.
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There's no good reason to move to the new paid API and members shouldn't be subscribing. |
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There is because the data is still better at thetvdb. Airtimes missing from others stops the searcher from finding episodes at the right time, for example.
On Thursday 01 July 2021 14:06:07 PM (-07:00), Alexis Tyler wrote:
There's no good reason to move to the new paid API and members shouldn't be subscribing.
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What others? Most of them can import from thetvdb so this isn't really an issue. Also from what I know the v3 isn't going away for quite a while and contains all the data we need. Also please stop using emails to reply as this is creating a seperate top comment every time. |
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So unless I'm misunderstanding here, your response to thetvdb giving the middle finger to its users - the reason why it has the best data for shows by a mile - is to turn around and do the same to your users by purposely not supporting them even as a paid option, leaving users abandoned with no other options? (Sonarr isn't an option as it still has no idea how to handle backlogged episodes, and using anything other than thetvdb isn't an option either as the vast majority of the data I use/edit exists there and nowhere else.) "Most of them can import from thetvdb so this isn't really an issue." I haven't seen this feature anywhere. |
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You can add shows to tvmaze as well as tmdb. How else are their shows sourced? And we don't give the middlefinger to our users. That's 100÷ on tvdb. Im just not motivated to put a lot of time in this, because tvdb got greedy. But if you want to sacrifice your hard earned free time, to add tvdb apiv4 support through a PR. I'll happily review it. |
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I understand your view p0psicles, I just wish tvmaze didn't suck so much. |
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I've switched a few months ago to TMDB and so far have not run into any issues, KODI, Plex and Trakt still work without issue. |
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Can we at least have a quick way to change a show's indexer in Medusa without losing history? |
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I also would love to have a feature like this. It would make this process so much easier if there was an indexer migration function in the mass update panel. And perhaps there should also be a notification for when the api finally goes offline as well, so users who might not be in the know can just click a button to transfer to a different one. |
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I'm working on a mass update indexer page. |
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That would be very helpful. Thanks! |
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I could use some testers. You'd need to use git commands to checkout a specific branch. |
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Since #11217 and #11218 mentioned this, I thought I'd post a fresh summary here so as not to pollute those other issues. My interpretation of the discussion is... correct me if my opinions colour this summary too much... If not very many people were ever going to use the latest API [in Medusa] because it cost money, then there wasn't much motivation to implement and support client use of it in Medusa. It would require effort to implement, effort to support, effort to bugfix, etc. I was in favour of having support for it cuz I probly would pay, but I'm not a core developer and wouldn't want to burden them with having to do something that wouldn't get a whole lot of use. That said, thetvdb is woefully inadequate at following thru on their "promises", so I'd be surprised to see them actually monetize the new API any time soon. Would this make it worth trying to support it, um, temporarily? Probly not because even if you get it running well on a temporary basis, if thetvdb ever does monetize, usage would fall way off. This would still require support, and then be a burden for something with low usage. |
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@medariox @mmhere ... As a newcomer to Medusa, from Sickchill (SC), I thought I'd just drop in a comment here. Nothing more than that though, just a comment with some musings 😉 I think we all knew, at some point, TVDB would end up causing massive problems to funnel people to their paid V4 model?!!! It's not the first and won't be the last time TVDB has caused upset. Though I can't imagine hosting such an API is cheap or without it's problems. But I do think this is them nailing the coffin for the free API. I expect many people who have been using SC to switch to Medusa (hopefully 😁👍) or something like Sonarr, since SC is still currently stuck with TVDB. Will this now mean greater burdens on TVmaze, TMDB? I'm not counting IMDB since their API/solution/implementation seems a little more crazy than the others 🤣😂🤷♂️... I'm hoping that TVmaze + TMDB don't follow the same path as TVDB if their hosting costs drastically increase with people changing from TVDB v2🤷♂️ So... I think all of this needs another round of thought/ideas? I'm not saying these (below) are good ideas, but just trying to get those creative juices flowing 🤷♂️
Again, these are just thoughts and nothing more! Heck, I've not even finished my SC to Medusa migration yet! 🤣 |
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Skyhook? Definition or reference appreciated. |
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I guess this is either a feature request or a forward looking support question designed to track thetvdb API changes and impending monetization on their (thetvdb) part.
I just received an email that "v4" API represents their plan to monetize their data. Projects either have to pay for a project apikey or pass the cost onto end users who will require their own personal apikey (global across projects they use).
I think I'm understanding it properly, but the email is attached below so it can speak for itself.
Deadline: current APIs go offline in March 2021 according to the email.
Apologies in advance for PDF here; couldn't figure out how to reasonably preserve formatting and keep it "portable" (so-called). Didn't want to paste the large block of text here either:
x.pdf
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